HELLO, I'm looking for some advice. I've read through a lot on this forum and there's tons of helpful info, I'm just deciding what gun/direction to take.

I am in Manitoba, Canada, in a very cold and dry climate..it's not unusual to be -30 degrees celsious for weeks straight. We want to make snow for our small snowboard club. Short of getting a commercial gun, I want to explore our own options. We actually have a local commercial gun manufacturer, but they had little interest in helping us and he was saying I would need 120psi water and a huge 80 gallon compressor?

Our hill is small, basically just a small park but we'd like to make LOTS of snow to make features. What would be best? Fan gun? or multiple sm4's?

We have an Artesian well on the property with a recovery rate of 50 gpm. Is there opportunity to pump from a submersible pump in the well to another pump to get the pressure we need?

Anyone have guns for sale?

THANKS

Define "small hill"

Where will your power source come from pumping, compressor, etc?

What is your capital budget? What is your operational budget?

The hill is about 400 feet long by appox 150' wide.

There is 220 volt near the well, and more power at the bottom of the hill. About 10 years ago it was a waterslide park, and some of the infrastructure remains like power, and a building and some of the old pumps and lines, but they are all shallow for summer use.

Start up capital for the snow making is about $2500 to $3000.

We are a small non-profit snowboard club looking to make it happen because our closest local hill is 200km away! Any help is appreciated!
thanks

It may look small but it is still plenty big...1.378 Acres. To cover an acre with a foot of snow takes roughly 140,000 gallons based on 3.2 gallons of water per cubic foot of snow. So to cover your hill with a foot of snow would require close to 193,000 gallons of water.

Next you have to back into it and figure how long you would want to make snow for. Say 4 days or 96 hours worth. At that rate you would need to convert 33.5 gaalons of water into snow per minute. That rate is beyond your typical home snowmaking and into a small commercial sized operation. Based on your budget that will be very tough to do.

What about teaming up with the parks department. Would thay have any interest?

With 2-3000 dollars, you could go on resortboneyard.com and buy a small used fangun with an onboard compressor for around 1000 to 1500 dollars. I'm assuming since it's a water park, there is 3 phase power running in there, due to the large demands of commercial aquatic pumping equipment.

The rest of the budget could be spent on a pump to boost your pressure up to what's required for the fangun, and whatever wiring is required to get the 3 phase power outside. In fact, you might even be able to reuse one of the pumps that's still around there, if it'll output suitable pressure.

Since you likely have 3 phase power available, a used fangun would be the easiest and overall cheapest way to maximize your 50 gpm you have available. It would take way more than 3k in equipment to pump that much water with sm4s.

thanks for the reply.

I'm not looking to cover the whole hill, as we get plenty of natural snow. But it would be beneficial to make snow to start the season early and help it go late, and build the base.

We have endless water and power, and we're willing to make snow all winter long! I live right beside the hill, so I can run them at night.

As of yet parks isn't involved, we are just outside the city limits.

How much do you figure a small commercial op would cost to set up? The local guy has commercial guns for 1900, minus the compressor.

thanks anickode! that is helpful.
There is 3 phase at the bottom of the hill. i'm guessing the wire to get back to mid/top hill won't be cheap.

let me know if you come across a used fangun!

thanks

I would think you could make snow airless in this situation, afterall, -30C is -22F so we're talking really cold temps here... I would almost expect any snowgun to certainly freezeup at that temp unless it has a really really good heating unit, even after and presnowmaking would cause alot of problems....

I would think all you need is about 300psi at the gun and a spray systems FF fogjet nozzle on like a 15-20' tower... Your pump is probably going to need to pump about 15-20gpm @ 400-500psi per gun...

What do you guys think? I would almost certainly expect airless to work...

thanks Matt. I heard back from one of the guys at the local hill, and they use cannons on towers he said. So no air, just a pump.

yeah like matt said, any ideas?? I'd rather go DIY cause we've done that the whole time so far. I would compensate for consultation, cause our local hills are no help, I guess they see our small private club as a threat?
This is definitely the best resource I have found..

Thanks

This is where an SMI 320 would shine.. Since you have 3 phase power, you could easily run them. However.. im guessing it would be tough to find any old units in Canada.

If matt says airless is possible with a fogjet, then i would trust him.

There are actually three SMI 320's for sale on the resort boneyard, $1000 each. But they are in NY.

What advantages would these guns have? they require a compressor right?

These guns seem affordable, what option do you think would be better, SMI 320 or towers with nozzles?

they do not need a compressor, they use a well engineered fan that splits the water droplets into smaller ones that can freeze easier. 320 only need water and three phase power and the ones on resort bone yard have been sold already!

cool thanks.

A friend just sent me a pic of this one in our area. Is it an SMI 320? or something very similar?

Thanks

I would say that purchasing that is your best bet, if your temp get that cold. this machine will turn out a lot of snow in those cold condition. You will also have to think about how you are going to move all that snow around. have you thought of a groomer?

Yeah, the SMI 320 would be an EXCELLENT option for you since it's so cold. Plus they don't need a compressor, and because the atomization is completely mechanical, they don't require a high pressure pump. They'll run happily from 30 psi up.

One advantage to a fangun would be that you would have enough throw, you'd only have to get it like halfway up the hill to make snow at the top.

quote:

Originally posted by anickode:
They'll run happily from 30 psi up.

One advantage to a fangun would be that you would have enough throw, you'd only have to get it like halfway up the hill to make snow at the top.

SMI specs call for 100psi.

Not much throw from the SMI 320 as a lot tends to pile up under the blade. If you have a way to move the snow it would be the least expensive option for you provided you have three phase power.

Here is a picture from Devils Head resort that still uses the SMI 320. You can see from the piles how there is little throw vs a fan gun.

Thanks for the help.

Apparently this 320 isn't for sale anymore. But I am now looking into towers, there is a local resort here that produces their own towers. Talking with a local guy, this is the way to go, a lot less snow pushing.

Does anyone have advice on the pumps we would need? Matt mentioned 15-20 gpm @ 400-500psi and FF fogjet nozzles.. sounds like that's what our local hill is running. I will try and find some pics.

Thanks

umm, why couldn't he just buy a resort air/water gun for like $200 and rent a diesel compressor and get a pump? rent/purchase. gas or electric?

quote:

Originally posted by Groomer08:
umm, why couldn't he just buy a resort air/water gun for like $200 and rent a diesel compressor and get a pump? rent/purchase. gas or electric?

Too costly. To rent a 185cfm compressor here is $84 a day (max hours run time of 8 hours per day) and it consumes 21 gallons of fuel per 8 hours at $3 per gallon is $63 for a total of $147 per 8 hours.

Assume it is cold enough you can run at a ratio of 8:1, you will then be able to use 23.125gpm or 1,387 gallons per hour. Using Ratniks assumption of 140,000 gallons of water to cover one acre (208'x208') with a foot of snow it would take 100 hours and cost $1,764. Even if you wanted to cover a 1/4 acre it would take 25 hours or $441 in compressor rental and fuel consumption. And thit is not factoring in any cost for a pump/pump rental and fuel for the pump.

There's also the issue that many resort air/water guns use WAY more than 180 cfm. Some of the ratniks can push upwards of 700 cfm.