Hi everyone!

I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this message but I thought give it a go anyway.

I'm hoping to one day work in an American ski resort in snowmaking but really have no experience at all in the field. About ten years ago (I know, so long ago!) I was a lift attendant in a Canadian resort and back then I always thought I'd like to move into snowmaking. Unfortunately my visa ran out and although I vacation in the snow every year, it's not until now that I'm in a position to work a season again and I'd love to do it snowmaking.

So although I understand this forum is mainly for amateur snowmaking enthusiasts, I'm hoping there may be a couple of pro's on here who could offer some advice on anything I can do (or training I can undertake) that would help down the line when I apply for a job as a snowmaker.

Thanks very much for any help anyone may be able to offer!

Dave.

Well I dunno what they do with foreign employees, however, I know copper and aspen do some sort of student exchange thing where they take in a ton of employees from the southern hemisphere, meaning, our winter ski season is your summer job... I'm pretty sure you'd fit in the same boat, your summer is our winter and visa-versa.

I would consult some of the big ski resorts out west. I know they might not pay a ton but I've herd from talking to the guys and gals out there that they love their job and have a ton of fun, and if I did something like that for a summer, it'd just be for the fun. You can work the rest of your life, why not spend a 3 month summer having some fun and making a little less doe...

But anyway. Depending on what ski resort you work at out there here's what your gonna get. Long/dark nights... Colorado could be the exception but here in the mid-west, about 75% of snowmaking is done after 9PM.

So what knowledge do you have of snowmaking? Give us some idea of what perked your interest in snowmaking when you worked in Canada.

Ok, the Snowguns themselves...
You have 3 basic snowguns. Your typical air/water gun, your LowE tower gun, and Fangun. Colorado resorts tend to use more fan and air/water guns than tower guns, but a place like copper has some tower guns. I herd tower guns are less efficient out west, so thus they stick to fan and air/water guns. Your air/water gun is basically a water line and air line coming into a T or Y type gun, usually made by Ratnik, and they mix and make snow. They're the most inefficient guns but work best at high temps. These guns can be moved by 1 or 2 people or a snowmobile can move them. How you turn them on is you turn the water on first a bit, then air all the water, wait till the water comes out the gun just a tad, then once you turn the air on it should mix properly and walla, adjust the water valve as needed to get the right mix. Then shutdown you just turn off the water and unhook the cam on the water hydrant, the air will blow out all the water from the hose and gun. Then turn off the air.


Next are your fanguns, they're more complex. Usually you'll see either SMI polecats or Wizzards out west. You might see a few Turbocristals or Arecos.... But basically, you have a 15-25HP fan that blows the water particles and nucleator out to make snow. These really throw the snow, like 300ft+. They're also really heavy, like 1000-2000lbs.. So you can only move them with a snow cat. They are pretty east to turn on or off. Basically you just hookup the water line, or air, if there isn't a on-board compressor. Usually before this power is turned on to the mountain and snowmakers before you left on the heat for the nucleator and nozzle ring. So if thats not on you usually turn those on, just a turn of a knob. Then you turn the main power in, which turns the compressor and fan on, then you walk back to the hydrant and turn on the water, walla snow. Then you adjust the valves to mix the appropriate amount of water in order to make the most snow at that temp...


Basically operating these guns is really simple. Once you've done it 1 or 2 times you get good at it then start timing yourself..lol At my local resort since I worked there this past winter, I'd help the terrain park guys turn off the guns or open a stage or close 1... It's really fun to work with snowguns when they're pumping out 120gpm...

There is a guy on the forum here that I haven't seen in quite awhile, but he works for Copper Mountain snowmaking, so I dunno how you could get in touch with him other than calling the resort. However, if your planning on doing this job thing this winter, you better hop on right now because resorts out west are gearing up to make snow already, they might have full staff with the way our economy is...


Good luck, hopefully something I said helped.

Yeah, don't we all want jobs making snow... I applied for one, still haven't heard back. I should realy do a follow up.

attitash in NH does a huge hiring by nov. i had a job without a interview, however i never got the layoff from my main job to allow me to go up there! think they do exchange too.

Thanks heaps guys, especially Matt!

In answer to your question Matt, I actually have very little knowledge of snowmaking. What actually peaked my interest was the guys who worked on the snowmaking team were a great bunch, I get a real buzz from the guns themselves (weird I know) and I also like the thought of having a lot of day time free to hit my new snow.

As I mentioned, I have no knowledge of snowmaking and no experience which, even though it would only be entry level, would really disadvantage me when applying for a job in the field. So I guess I'm looking for advice on any type of course or training (basic mechanics? plumbing? or anything?) that somebody could suggest that I undertake to help me prepare for the job search and application to work in snowmaking for a ski resort.

By the way, I won't be applying until the 2010/11 ski season so there's still lots of time.

Thanks again for the replies everyone, this forum is a great wealth of knowledge and advice!

Dave.

You don't need to know much as what you need to know they will teach you.

What you can do is prepare...

Go turn on your shower (ice cold) and stand in it for a minute. Then run outside (with shorts on) when the temps are 30 or less and stand out there for 5 minutes. Why...because you will get wet and you will get cold. There is no way getting around it. I got wet and cold as evey snowmaker does and so will you.

Next, get in physical shape. Those 2-1/2" hose are light when empty, but when you have to move them when they are full of water they are heavy. You will also use alot of energy hiking up and down, even with a quad or snowmobile. You will probably have to big out a fan gun after it has been running for 48 hours...the heavy snow that surrounds it is like no show you shovel in your driveway.

Having been a snowmaker, it was fun and rewarding, at least for the season. But I can't stress enough is hard work in which you will get wet and you will get cold. Good luck and have fun.

ya tom is right. No offense, but every mtn op manager ive ever talks to claims they can teach any idiot how to make snow. which is pretty true. heres a commercial gun, hook it up, adjust this till it makes white fluffy. thanks!

and you def will get wet. heck, just in my small time snowmaking i come home after 5hrs covered in solid ice. luckily it hadnt gone through my carhart gear yet, but i was still cold. Im only doing 5gpm. imagine babysitting 50 guns all doing 200gpm. just the fallout will get you soaked. let alone if theres leaky hoses, spraying hydrants.

just wondering when you work as a snowmaker does the mtn op say ok the pipes are charged here are you trails start making snow or do you only have a certain area or how does that all work from the time you walk in to the time you leave,just wondering????/

Im sure every mountain operates a little differently. Some mountains leave the guns out on towers, or leave the cart mounted guns sitting out. I know some resorts haul in all the guns when they're not running, so you have to take them all out and position and level them before snowmaking can even begin.

My ski resort is small enough to where when we charge the hill we charge the entire hill. Yea we pump over 7000gpm @ 400psi hill but then again we have 249 polecats and super polecats...

We had a pipe burst last season at the terrain park entrance. This is my understanding, we do have like 3-4 valves that we can turn off or on to service the hill. So when that pipe burst at the bottom of the T-park, we shut that side off and could still make snow on the far side of the hill. I haven't toured the pump house yet though, but we've got tons of HP for our water...

The snowmakers have radios and the guys down in the pump house let the snowmakers know the pressure us up and good to go. Also, when the snowmakers, ha or me too, are opening valves or turning guns on we have to let the guys down in the pump house know so the pressure stays up. I guess the guys down there are pretty anal about the pressure dropping below 400psi on the hill and thus they say if it drops below 400 they'll have to start turning alot of stuff off to get it back up...weird.. Besides, I was getting mad at them 1 night when it was -4F and they were still running 400psi and about 75% of the water they were blowing out was all evaporation and drift...it was sad.

again matt, thats the part where "any idiot can make snow" comes in. they just know what they're told. they dont know the physics behind it and have never been allowed to adjust pressures based on temps, to play with it and see if it will work. and that "comfy" pumphouse job isnt something they're willing to risk for some young wipper snapper. You'd pretty much have to be them, they're boss or the mountain owner to get the pressures lowered for subzero temps. from what i under stand very FEW mountains even do that.its the same spec every time.

I know this is kinda off topic for this thread but to reply to groomer...

Just imagine if ski resorts did change their specs tho..how much $$$ they'd save would be insane. Plus just think if how much more snow they'd actually have on the ground by dropping the PSI 100psi and bigger droplets = less evap... when its like epic conditions, <0F


Take my ski resort for instance...
say they run 150guns at average 4000gpm...
100hours on 300psi is 98,630KWH on the pumps
100hours on 400psi is 131,506KWH on the pumps...
$11,835.60 with a $.12pKWH @ 300psi
$15,780.72 with a $.12pKWH @ 400psi
Savings of $3,945.12.... Even tho they probably wouldn't get a chance to run 100 hours in temps that low...but still, resorts could save alot of money by dropping the pressure and gaining alot more snow... Plus they'd have bigger bases from dropping the pressure at those low of temps... so therefore more snow to last and stay open longer...big incentive...

Matt,

Most of what you say is true but you are forgetting the fact that resorts are pumping UP a mountain. Most areas are desingned to have a few up lines but the majority of lines are return lines. Pumps are engineered for areas knowing that the discharge pressure has to be high to get over the summit. Lets just say it takes 700psi to get to the summit then pumps would be designed for a discharge pressure of lets say a 950psi. This only gives a a 50psi margin of error if you need 200psi at the summit, dropping pressure will lead to not getting over the summit and starving guns on the downside. This leads to frozen and split piplines and guns. Thawing out a couple thousand feet of 8 inch pipe is enough to make any snowmaker respect the control room operator and his ability to keep water flowing . Pumproom operators are not anal about pressure just because they can be. Lowering pressures can also make the pump and motor operate outside of their curves.

Matt,
I not sure how the are your mountain is running but usally the control room operator is dictating the pressure in the piplines. The snowmaker is contolling pressure to the gun with idividual hydrants. Lowering the discharge pressure is not a perfect recipe for increasing or decreasing droplet size at the gun.

Yes, the snowmaker talks directly to the guys in the pump house to keep pressure constant. I was just using 400 and 300psi as reference, im sure its more like 600psi, the hill is only 300'vert.drop...

Decrease in spray pressure results in a increase in droplet size, never a decrease in size. Only a increase in pressure will result in a decrease in droplet size, to an extent, anything over 700psi is ridiculous. At 1000psi a 4001 has a droplet size of only a 100-200micron difference between that 4001 and a 4070...

quote:

im sure its more like 600psi, the hill is only 300'vert.drop...

I am with you Matt..keep the PSI down and keep your energy costs down. My hill has 300' of vertical too and they maintain 200psi at top and 300psi at the bottom. More than enough for their SMI fan guns. If you double the psi you double your electric/$$$ use. SMI fans are rated 100-500psi.

Great post Wilson. Just shows how complex a pumping operation is and the variables to consider.

You are correct, the one thing i have little experience with is 300 foot vert. areas. I was speaking for the areas i have worked at that do discharge 9-11k gpm at 950-1000 psi in order to climb over 2000 vert. Since you are so familiar with pole cats lets use Mount snow as an example. I am not sure if they have a booster station or not but i am guessing their vert is about 2k. The base area is going to have much more pressure than a pole cat needs in order to supply the summit area(unless a booster station is used) especially since they are running a/w guns up there. Areas i have been at did use some of the theories you are talking about, If we were only making snow on the lower mtn we did lower the discharge significantly in order to increase the gpm the pumps were able to put out.

Matt: Where you able to get the hkd pics you needed?

Nope, still haven't gotten them...

see, and that is how we learn stuff we'd never know otherwise. thanks wilson!